Science & Technology 

Talking Scrum with Steve Porter

$23.20

Agile Software Development with Scrum (Series in Agile Software Development)

From Amazon

Sales Rank 50542 Schwaber, Ken/ Beedle, Mike

eXtreme Programming is an ideal many software shops would love…
Buy now

Language:
processes and tools dominate today'sagile discussions but we are devoted tothe individuals and interactions thatmake it work from the beginner to theveteran practitioner we have somethingfor youwelcome to agile for humans all rightwelcome to this week's episode of agilefor humans I'm your host Ryan Ripleythis is the podcast about theindividuals and interactions that makeagile work our focus is on the humanside of agile the things that don'tinvolve the tools and the practices moreof the people behind what makes agile sogreat you know the people behind whatmake this show what even possible it'sall of you we've gotten a lot of greatfeedback from the iTunes reviews soplease hit iTunes and and leave us areview there if you can we've started tosee an uptick in patreon and newslettersignups and all of you just been sharingthe show the numbers keep getting betterand better so thank you for that assharing certainly is caring and from thenumbers we've seen you all certainlycare though thank you thank you thankyou for all of that we're gonna get intothe show now we have Steve Porter on theshow Steve is with scrum org he does alot of the the trainer activities andjust really all around great agilethinkers so without any further ado hereis Steve Porter Steve welcome to theshowI'm doing great thanks so Steve heads upthe PST community I believe it's scrumdoubt or guy I don't know the officialtitle so you've helped me out well Iwill I'll give I'll give credit wherecredit is due the person who actuallyheads up the PST program is a woman myname is Daphne Harris she's awesome shehas interviewed and been involved withevery single PST who has ever been partof the community plus every singlecandidate so she owns that my job is tosupport her obviously and generally tosupport our professional community soonce you become a PST I'm there to helpsupport you but beyond that any of ouranybody who's interested in becoming ascrum professional my job is to reallytohelp you with that goal to providelearning opportunities material whateverI can do to help you achieve your goalbecause it's people of that communitythat fulfill our mission of improvingprofessional software delivery right sobetween Daphne who I agree is excellentand she definitely shepherded me throughthe PST program so between definitDaphne and Steve we really have ourprofessional community and its reallybeen I've been interestingI've been interested in trying to getyou on the show because I reallyappreciate and look up to the way thatyou put a lot of consideration andthought into scrum right so when we aska question a lot of people will give offthe hip answer but then you'll come backwith something very powerful that makeus all stop and think and so just reallyappreciate that and wanted to see if wecould dig into that a little bit surethat sounds great and I appreciate thatscrumI love scrum I'm really a hugeenthusiasm enthusiasm plis 'ti but Ithere is a lot of depth in the frameworkKen and Jeff have done such an amazingjob of building this wonderful thingthat really people have taken and usedto do some just awesome things out therein the world oh absolutely I know we'vetalked on the show in the past about theGuayana police force using scrum to tohelp secure their country yeah I knowDave West shared that with us on aprevious episode I mean that's just oneof many ways that scrum I think has madethe world better when when it comes tothinking about scrum so you're in aposition where you're supporting PST isI think we have I think one of thestrongest scrum communities in the worldit's very very intimidating to be amember of this communities I you know Irecently joined it as the listenersmight know and now there's a lot of verysmart people here and when you get hitwith the question Steve now what are thethings that I know you pause and youmake this and yeah it's very clear thatyou're thinking through it but whenyou're about to give you know a veryspecific answer about scrum what are thethings do you have like a filter do youhave a process do you have you knowthings in your mind where you you makeyou go through as you try to make surethat the answer is precise and powerfuland and meaningful to the to the personasking the question yeah absolutely I dotrim is a relatively simple set of rulesand whenever someone has a questionabout some nuance it's usually thequestion comes from their context andcontext is very important and I do wantto appreciate their context but I dooften like to start off with kind of thebasic scrum answer some of thefoundational pieces talk abouttransparency inspection and adaptationthose sort of pieces so often you cankick off the response with well you knowis your tell me a little bit about thetransparency you have tell me a littlebit about what you're currently doingjust to to kind of dig in a little bitat some of the core pieces but then I dowant to try to follow up with questionsto understand the context context is keywhen you're talking about scrum we'retalking about complex work and theanswers to most people's challenges incomplex environments require a littlebit of questioning to see what whatenvironment you're currently in rightnow and then I can start providing a bitmore guidance and so once you getthrough and you understand the thecontext and and maybe it's I'm sure youget a wide variety of questions do yousee themes though so especially whensomeone's challenging you about scrumand you figure out the context and youfind out a little bit more have you seenthese patterns of misunderstanding haveyou seen these patterns of concernthere's something that's really stoodout to you where you know this aspect ofscrum in particular has really just beenmisunderstood or misrepresented or boththat is a good question that has beenone of the and whether it's a questionin a classroom setting or just myinteractions with people kind of out inthe wild dressing people who are tryingto use scrum or have used scrum or beenin environments where they've attemptedit and struggled and they they come atme a bit with the scrum doesn't workwe've tried scrum this doesn't work wethis this piece doesn't isn't isn'tnecessarily making me better and I willstart asking questions around well whatexactly are your challenges what exactlya problemwhy are what are you what are you tryingto to accomplish and what are you doingand I will often uncover the challengesthat they're having aren't necessarilywith the framework themselves but therewere some of the pieces that they'veadded on to it some of the additionalpractices that they did that they'veincluded that they think they need to dobecause they want to follow theframework but really they're justadditional practices that may at onetime have helped somebody they talked toand that's why they picked them up butin their context never context is kinghere in their context these things don'twork and because they don't work theyblame scrum and so understanding againunderstanding their context andunderstanding what they think they needto do or don't need to do to get themost out of scrum and where those wherethose myths may be helped me have adeeper conversation hey everyone itsRyan Ridley we're gonna break in herereal quick I want to tell you about anupcoming conference from tech well it'sactually the agile testing days USA areyou ready to get that party started ifyou haven't heard yet europe's fun andwildly popular agile testing festival iscoming to north america this june 25ththrough the 29th as agile testing daysUSA i'm very excited about this theagile testing days USA conference willbe a festival of learning and sharingfor the community the agile focusedlearning experience will provide aninteractive way to get deep insights andthe latest developments and testing andagile excellence as well as manyopportunities to network with fellowpassionate agile software professionalssome of the upcoming tutorials in bostoninclude an agile management andleadership clinic a leading globaladoptions workshop a mob programminghands-on workshop and a huge variety ofother top-notch agile learning sessionswe hope you'll be able to join thecommunity in Boston for this inauguralevent explore the upcoming programdetails atwell that TC Ford / agile testing daysUSA there will be a link in the shownotes for this please do check it outalso agile for humans listeners use thecode humans all uppercase H um ans toreceive an additional ten percent off ofthe super early lobster pricing when youregister by April 27th great way to saveon an awesome conference it's veryexciting they're bringing this to the USI've always wanted to check this one outexcept it's never been here now it isuse though use the code humans alluppercase to get 10% off the super earlylobster pricing a wonderful opportunitythe website again well dot t-- c /a j'ltesting days USA i hope to see you thereit's a it's a good one and i'm just ican't believe they brought it to the USit's gonna be great so with that saidlet's get back to the interview withsteve porter as we learn more about howhe thinks about scrum and some of theways that we can apply those thinking'sas well and i'm sure that happens quitea bit especially in in your vast travelsso I'm actually surprised I'm catchingyou at home Steve for the listeners whodon't know I think you've hit mostcontinents teaching scrum I'm sureyou've seen many different scenarios andmany different students and so with thatwith that context set with just a wideexperience of students and many manydifferent verticals and context and whenyou're when you're helping this newscrum master right so we we have someonewho's going through a two-day course orsomeone that you've decided to mentorand really help grow in their role whatare the things that you start with nowand I don't mean of course the two-daycourse I mean that's that's importantright so if everyone out there thetwo-day course is important let's getstarted on the right foot but whenyou're looking to actually help someonethrough their career as a scrum masteror to really deepen their understandingof the role now what do you turn toto get that conversation going and toget that person further down the path soif I'm dealing with scrum masters peoplewho is job it is to provide thatguidance that's support to people one ofthe things that I really want to drillinto people in that role and this maysound a little odd but whatever whatreally want to impressupon people is you're not as smart asyou think you are that again contact isreally important and you may come to atwo-day class you may come to you maycome to your team with a whole bunch ofideas and how you're going to make thisteam improve and I need to convincepeople that their ideas may be harmfulthey may be detrimental because you'regonna bring your experience frompotentially some other context so I wantevery scrum master to approach the rolewith humility with that idea that heyI'm here to help you why don't you whydon't we talk about what your challengesare and together we can explore someways to to make you better an internetreally interesting experience in today'sTuesday class so we're wrapping up andat the we're doing kind of the theclosing out at the end of day two and Ihad a more senior person sitting in theclass and we've been talking a littlebit about next steps and he was veryexcited about what he had heard andtalked about okay just want to letpeople know that like this isn't gonnabe like the regular classes that you'vebeen in where nothing is going to happensomething is going to happen things aregoing to change and he was very excitedand I have taken my side afterward andsay okay you've unfortunately justundone some of what I have tried toteach you over the last couple of daysbecause you are now reading this and Iwant you to encourage people to join younot necessarily tell them they're goingto change and that's one of the places Iwant people to start from are in thatscrum master rule is you're there tohelp peopleit's that servant leadership role that Iknow you are you know a lot about you'rereally passionate about it's how can youserve people that's the foundation thatI want to really teach people so that'sthe thing they go leaving that two-dayclass going to the organization thinkingabout how can I serve others yeah it's ahard lesson I actuallyfell into that trap many many years agowhere you get very excited and you comeback from this class and I think what itdoes it shows people a world ofpossibility right we don't have to DeathMarch these projects we don't have toact in the dark we don't have to lieabout status because if we saysomething's red we get in troublethere's all these things that that youkind of get free of when you startthinking in a scrum type of way andespecially when you embrace the scrumvalues right I think those things arejust an infusion of life into yourpractices and you can get very veryexcited and I got overly ambitious andand a little pushy and it became aboutme and there's actually a fellow PSD Iwon't call him Alex I think he'd beembarrassed a bit but I mean he actuallypulled me aside back when I was astudent and and he was the the still isthe PST but back then and he said thisis not about you none of this is aboutyou like you are you are the least thisis all about the people you're servingright and so their needs come first andthat really that was a very pivotal daywhere I had to kind of calm down a bitand realize that the context from theclassroom back into the organization istotally different yeah the people aroundme have not seen the world a possibilityyet so it's my job to see where they'reat see what the context will allow andmake some incremental steps and changesbut with them as a partner with and notme being a hero and it was a really it'sa difficult lesson I mean it really isone that especially in the moderncorporate culture where you want to berecognized for promotion and foradvancement and for bonus it's it istotally counterculture andcounterintuitive but so essential thatthe scrum master is truly the servantleader and and not at the forefront yeahmy times is a scrum master I would oftenget accused of being lazy because Iwould have teams come to me and saySteve Steve got an impediment we needyou to fix this and my first responsealways would be this is not impedimentthis is not my job this is your dog goback and fix it have you tried to fix itI'm not touching this I'm busy you cangonext s and I would really want toencourage teams to solve their ownproblem because if I'm solving theirproblems I become a bond neck so there'sthat sense of yes you were there toserve but sometimes the best way you canserve people is to not help them at allpotentially even watch them fail I justwas reminded today in my class of agreat quote from the latest Star Warsmovie you know about failure being thebest teacher and as a scrum masteryou're a coach you're an educator you'rehelping people and there are certainlytimes where it's like okay teams runinto some issues I certainly have asolution for them but they're not readyfor me to come in and help them I'm justgonna let this go and the great thingabout scrum one of the things I reallylove about scrum is it's a container forexperimentation and you've always gotlimited risk most of the times you'regoing to have a failure and I'm gonnaput that in quotes right we're talkingabout a relatively short period of timewe're talking about a relatively smallamount of people and even in the casewhere I've had where you've had a sprintthat would be a failure we didn't geteverything done did you get somethingdone did you learn something was there alittle bit of value that you receiveddid you is the next sprint going to bebetter because of the quote unquotevalue you had this sprint excellent youstill got some value and again it was arelatively short horizon for effort andone of the great things that scrum givesteams is this freedom to experiment inthis freedom to potentially fail butit's okay we have a safe environmentthat you can do that in a bit of atangent but I've been hearing a lotabout safety and how important safety iswhen you're doing complex work and Ithink scrum is built for safety becauseyou've got those time boxesone month or less container to minimizeand in your risk and yeah teamself-organized we're not going to givethem a command and control pieces butthat's okaywe're giving them container and at theend of the container we're gonna checkin hey how did you doand not only we're gonna check in butwe're going to give them the time to dosome introspection to figure out ways toimprove to learn from their potentialmistakes and then the next sprint willbe better that really is a to me thepower of the framework you know someargue it's a double loop learning someargue it's not double loop learningwhatever you want to call it the abilityjust just the inflection moment justthat they were gonna pause here we'regonna we're gonna think about what wedid we're gonna think about how we didit we're gonna think about how we feltabout doing it I mean all those thingscome to the forefront through the sprintretrospective you know the ability tolook at hey are we even quality rightthrough our definition of done duringthat meeting where though most peopledon't realize or the teams that I'vecoached at least they don't realizeinitially that hey we're supposed tohave that quality discussion too andmake sure the definition have done ismeeting that you know all thoseimportant things that promote safety Ithink the definition of done is a hugesafety card it's that we know that thesethings are true about our software thescrum values come in I think you'reabsolutely right it's built for safetythe values you know the commitment thecourage respect all those things comingtogether the focus and openness thosethings coming together though they allscream safety I mean how can how can howcan you not have a safe environment whenall these things are in place so I Ilove that observation another thing thatthat gets talked about a lot are thesefeature factories right the the idea ofthe feature factory where were a friendof the friend of the show kalpesh hetalks about backlog lumberjackswhere teams are just hacking through thebacklog chopping it up and deliveringand delivering and it's not a cohesivething and something I wanted to ask youabout because this is even an area whereI've struggled in the past to articulateit very wellso I'm going to steal whatever answeryou give the nextbut that's the Sprint goal right I thinkthis is one of those things where we'velost the idea at least in some teamsthat this is your North Star this is thethis is our focal point this is the bigidea and I know that you know with yourvast background of teaching teams I'msure the question about the Sprint goalcomes up a lot how do you address teamsthat are confused about the idea of theSprint goal and especially you know theimpacts of not having a good oneyeah well the impacts of not having oneat all yeah interestingthe scrum guide the framework peope andpeople often get really focused on theevents rolls and artifacts and how theyare a really key point of the frameworkand you need to have those and then theystart talking about the scrum goal andthey say well scramble is optional rightit's not an event roll artifact youdon't need to have it and I'm I coachedpeople to say okay yeah it's not anevent roll or artifact but what are youdoing in the daily like look through theguy what are you doing the daily you'retalking about the goal what are youdoing planning what are you doing inthere all the other spots I justrecently had Twitter just tweetedrecently that the word sprint goal islisted like 27 times in the scrum guideI think I think if you Canada probablythe word sprint cool is in there morethan increment so and and and and Ithink I including that tweet like theword velocity and tasks and planningpoker and stand-up are in there not atall but a sprint goal is in there awhole bunch of times because howimportant it is so so for the people outthere who think it's like oh I don'tneed to have one because it's not anevent gold artifact you need to have oneand the value that again that value itbrings people is it is the reason topull a group of people together and setthem towards something that they canwork together as a team to produce I doI I spend time with teamswho are in those more feature factorypieces or they're in more of a servicerole not product to livery role andthey're just on a they're just on a bitof a treadmill work comes in they do itwork goes out work comes in they do workwithout in a in a very singularindividual fashion and I try to workwith those teams there I'm certainlythere there there are probablyorganizations out there where anindividual person can take a piece ofwork work on that piece of work anddeliver it in a way that has customervalue when they're all on their own Ican't think of any environments and Ihave an experienced environments where asingle individual can provide value ontheir own but it may happen but in mostcases you probably have a collection ofpeople who are responsible fordelivering value you've got somebodyworking closely with the customer toelicit some business needs you may haveother individuals whose skills aretesting there are skills for deploymentthere are skills for constructing thingsyou may have a single person who has allthose skills most like you have a teamand because you have a team you needsomething to pull that team togetherwhat's the what's the reason that we asa group of people are going to dosomething instead of me just beingresponsible for this little individualpiece of work that on its own doesn'tprovide value and this is what thatscrum sari scrum the Sprint goal givesyou it gives the reason for a group ofpeople to think above and beyond justtheir piece of work and with some of theteams I work with who may be in more ofa support environment they may be in anenvironment where the work is a littlebit more interrupt-drivenand for those teams they out and saywell scrum is not good for us becauseit's really hard to plan out a week'sworth of work because a lot of our workstill provides value but it's it appearssuddenly we can deal with it relativelyquickly and then we can get it donequickly so in this because of this trunkis not gonna work there's no noadvantage for us and I always say tothose people it's like okay so a maybeeven a good chunkier workmight be more interrupt-driven you stillrequire a team though and I alwayschallenge those teams to say okay let'spick a period of time one month you'resorry not one month one week two weekswhatever is pull that team together andsay hey as a team work is gonna come andgo but what do we want to accomplishover this period of time what's thething that when we come to the end ofthat period of time let's say it's eventhe end of the weekthat we can look at each other and sayhey we got this done is if you don'thave those things that bind the teamstogether and you have a whole bunch ofpeople off on their own doing their ownthing and you can easily end up withsome very suboptimal optimizations aspeople try to figure out what's best forthem instead of what's best for the teamand potentially what's best for theorganization that teams working insideup yeah I think that's I'm definitelystealing that so for though for thelisteners out there who are strugglingwith the idea of a sprint gold you haveone from recent memory or where you'veseen a team share one with you just anexample just so that I know a lot oftimes we gravitate towards the login youknow the Sprint goal for this is that wecan login to the site but a user doesn'treally ask for that they ask for theirthings to be secured and so perhaps theSprint goal is to provide security for auser's data you know perhaps that's whatwe're after and login is just a piece ofthat but that's not really that's thecliched example have you seen anythingcompelling or an example that wouldreally bring clarity to do it to thepurpose of of a sprinkle give me asecond to think about that sure probablythe one that jumps out to my mind Ispent 18 months as a product ownerworking for a company called telluricawesome company and they had a tool thathelped teams basically manage theirbacklog or manage their work it may be abetter way to start this story and whenI joined the team was interesting theyhad the work they managed in the toolwas categorized as usersworries or bugs or risks or issues Ithink those were the four differentcategories of things that they wouldmanage and they had no centralized viewin the tool of all of that work at onceandwhen I joined the company as a productowner being a scrum guy my first thoughtwas well where's your backlog and it'slike well we've got a list of bugs herewe've got a list of user stories hereand we got a list of risk wheelageissues it's like well but certainlythose bugs in those stories that's inthe same backlog so where's the viewthat I can see all of them and they'relike oh we don't do that I'm like okaywe gotta fix that because you've got tohave one of those so I sat down with thedevelopment team and we started to talkabout the work we're gonna have to do toget that functionality into the systemand we're talking about a major factorin here the the end the architectureunder the hood didn't really supportshowing all of those in a way where aproduct owner could do drag-and-drop andedit it and sort it and do all that sortof things you wanted to do if it's gonnabe months worth of work to get that outso our first sprint my goal was allright let's make progress in the backlogso we can show something to ourend-users that will give them an idea ofwhere we're going like bare minimumwhat's the what's the minimum thing wecan do that we can show to our users sothey can they can get involved in thisand that was kind of the goal now younotice I didn't talk about any productbacklog items I didn't it was just kindof a theme it's like okay we got twoweeks period of time what could wepossibly accomplish here and that wasthe that was the goal that we talkedabout in planning and when inside ofplanning we kind of looked at all thedifferent pieces we could do we kind ofpulled a collection of work but the thatgoal was you know there wasn't even MVPif it was born it was like how can wejust get started and interesting forthat goal because there were a lot ofdiscussions during the sprint with whatdo we do this or dothat do we do this we do we do that andwe always came back to the okay what'sthe bare minimum we can get done here sothat the the review we can show ourstakeholders the direction we're headingand they made a lot of very interestingdecisions based on that so I got to thesprint review sat down with my VP andshowed him what we had and in this caseit was a static almost a report a staticdump of all of these different thingsall in a grid you couldn't edit it youcouldn't sort it you couldn't doanything right but there was a lot oftechnical underpinnings to actually pullall that data together and actually showit on a single screen and I put it infront of my my VP one of our majorstakeholders and said here's what weworked on the last two weeksand he was like this is awful I can'tuse this I can't sort it I can't likewhat have you guys been doing and I saidit was like okay well hang on for asecond we we've got weeks worth of workplanned here but I wanted to get startedwith something so I wanted to show youkind of where we're heading so you'reright this probably doesn't provide youa lot of value I could but it's ready togo right if you want it I could deployit to our environment we use the toolinternally I could use this and youcould actually pull this up on our owndata you say you can't use this whatwould make it useful and he looked atand went oh well I could if I could sorton a column at least I could sort on acolumn any column that would give me away of kind of digging through the dataand I could sort on the columns but Ineed more than that I need filtering Ineed all I need to be able to edit it'slike yeah I know you need all of thatbut based on what you see here what'swhat would make this useful for youtomorrow it's like okay well sorting thecolumns all right you can imagine whatmy next sprint the highest priorityhighest ordered item the backlog wasthat sorting we also did some otherthings but two weeks passed went to thereview and he looked at and went okaygreat I can do this but I still can't doblah blah blah and it's like I know thatbut is this better it's like oh yeahthat's much better all right what do youwant nextwash rinse repeat so that goal of getsomething out there that I can put infront of my users and buy it put infront of my users I mean I can deploy itand they can use it in quotes use itthey can act do something so I can getfeedback that's what we did and it wasjust an interesting challenge to ourengineers you have all of this stuffthey wanted to do it's like no let'shave some focuswhat's the bare minimum we can do so wecan get in front of our users they cangive us actionable feedback that was theSprint goal yeah I'm gonna steal thattoo after beat me the first time andthen after that it's yours got it so youwill you'll have the first attributionnow that I think that's a that's a greatway to explain it I really appreciateyou doing that it's um it's one of thoseunder or not well understood probablyunderappreciated features of scrum thatif people focused on it certainlysomething I focus on with my teamstrying to make sure that we have thatfocal point and trying to keep theconversation directed it's so easy forwork to come in the side door that woulddistract us from from what we're tryingto do and if we don't have that thing topoint to I even actually try to put youknow above the the team board here's ourgoal for the Sprint so that people canjust point when the work comes in andit's really a powerful thing and no Ithink that that's a great explanation Iwanted to touch on something real quick- you mentioned your role as a productowner you have a really interestingvideo out on the scrum Network site oneof the tapas is about trusting the teamyeah and I found it was reallyinteresting that that you had to remindyourself of that at a certain point thatthe team that we are to trust the teamcan you go into that a little bit Idon't want you to give away the tapasvideo we'll post that or we'll put thatin the show notes we'll make sure peoplehave a link to it but why is trust soimportant especially from a productowner role so why it's really importantI I I really need to encourage teams totake ownership for the work that they dothis is why as a scrum master I wouldwhen teams come to me I would basicallysay like no this is not my job this isyour job you want teams to takeownership andproduct owners if they're not carefulcan make teams feel like they're notempowered and as soon as teams feel likethey're not empowered they're a they'renot going to be as motivated to do thework and and be there they're just notgoing to take responsibility fordelivering awesome quality stuff thatthat their users want so I'm alwaysreminding product owners that you dohave a lot of accountability you'reaccountable for the value that this teamis working on so work with your team toorder the product backlog to make surethe most valuable stuff is at the topand then past that work off to the teamand then let them run with it let themtake ownership of the delivery portionwhich is the piece that they own it's apiece they're accountable for rightdelivering high quality increments andbe really careful about making them feellike they don't have ownership of thatbecause as soon as you make them feellike they don't have ownership then theywill they'll they'll stop being asengaged as you need them to be engagedand and potentially just start notputting in that full effort they need toput in yeah I think between theempowerment's and then back to your lastexample being able to see the impact oftheir work those two things are lackingI don't know a better way to demotivateand derail a team yeah and it can be sopowerful when you've got a great synergybetween the product owner who isthinking about what the customer wantsthinking about the end stakeholder andwhat value I can deliver to them you'vegot the development team who is focusedon producing a high quality work andthen you've got that scrum master makingsure that there's a balance between thetwo that you could you it's quite easyto over engineer pieces of work it'squite easy to think too muchyeah that's possible I think too muchabout quality and not think aboutgetting something to the end-user toprovide them value so having someone inbetween the two knots that scrum masterrole to get teams to understand thevalue they're delivering and thatthere's value in getting things intocustomers hands to validate soonerrather than later and product owner tounderstand that the team are qualityengineers they're they're doingprofessional work and to listen to themwhen they say yes or no about somethingabsolutely critical I love the idea ofthe you know the focus that you talkabout and it's because it's the shortfeedback loops the small bets the smallrisk the small increment and suddenlywe're safe to change we're safe to tolearn to fail so to grow and ultimatelywe deliver and that it is a powerfulmessage it's why I'm excited about scrumit's yeah me too so well Steve I knowwe're hitting up on our time box and Iknow that you I mean like I said I'mamazed you're home but I know you'restill very very busy so I want to wantto give you an opportunity here at theend just to get anything in front of thelisteners that you think's important tothem you know I I highly encourageeveryone to read the scrum guide I'mgonna start doing that at the end ofevery show because I'm I've had one toomany teams where I have taken over as acoach whereas a scrum master actuallyI'm trying to do more scrum master rolesnow and I say all right teach me scrumand they start teaching me scrum thensuddenly I say hold on hold on who'sread the scrum guide and you know threeout of nine hands go up and it's alrightwe got to start there but aside fromthat aside from checking out the scrumguide at scrum guides org what would youlike to get in front of the listenersanything new and exciting that theyshould know about any resources that youwould point them to the floor is yoursoh that's it's interesting I'm not sureabout resources I would I would pointtowards I think the key message I wantto give to people is question askquestions experiment with thingsI do like scrum I do like the scrumguide but I don't want people to just doit because Steve says it's great or Ryansays it's great all right I want you togo back to your teams go to yourorganization say hey I really want tomake this organization better and Ithink we've got a collection of peoplewho can do that I want to go work withthem to come up with some suggestions toimprove and experiment with them so mymessage really to everyone out there isto tomorrow try something different trysomething new try something you've neverdone beforeand when you're doing that do it in asafe environment and for me anytime youdo an experiment the way you do itsafely is to have a period of time thatyou're going to run that experiment forand when that period of time runs outyou're going to stop and go all righthow did we do with that experiment didit go well excellent let's keep goingand if it didn't do well be prepared tothrow it out and do something new andthis might be a little a little riskyfor me to say but scrum might be theexperiment that you try and it may notwork out for you and if you strugglewith certain parts of the scrumframework and the perfect example for meis you know Steve we you don'tunderstand our environment we can't getto production every two weeks what we dois really hard you know I know youwanted to be potentially releasable butwe can't do that and does that meanwe're not doing scrum and my response isgonna be yeah sorry one of the thingsthat we we get teams to do is at the endof every sprint to have something that'spotentially releasable because if withif you don't have that you're not gonnaget good feedback from people but youknow what that's okay like I'm not gonnathere are no scrum police no one's gonnacome out there and arrest you if at theend ofthe two-week period I've got somethingthat you know the best we can do is geta tu 80 as long as you keep trying toget better and I will encourage peopleto use the idea of the scrum frameworkwhich is to pull a team together pick aperiod of time that's safe to experimentin give that team a goal at the end ofthat period of time have the team stopreview the work with anybody who'sinterested in it after they've reviewedthat work sit down and say okay whatwent well what can we improve what whatyou know what changes we gonna make andthen wash rinse repeat it's that's thepart of the framework for me that is soimportant and the daily scrum and thesprint planning and the scrum master andthe product owner those are means to anend but if you just focus on those bitsthen you're going to improve greatmessage Steve if people want to continuethe conversation with you can they dothat through Twitter I mean how wouldyou prefer and and if you if Twitter'sall right what's your handle Twitter isgreat and it's Steve V's and Vincentours and Robert Porter so that's one wayyou can reach out to me and LinkedinStevie I report Steve be our porter isthe the thing you can punch intoLinkedIn and that'll that'll reach me aswell those are probably the two easiestways to reach out to me and I'm alwayshappy to chat with people excellent yeahand that is that is very true so Stevehas always been willing to entertain mysilly questions over the past three orfour years now I think has it been thatlongand I've always appreciated aappreciated that and I've always learneda lot especially even this conversationI have a lot of new things to thinkabout so Steve thanks for that I do wantto make sure we do give a shout out totag-along travel oh she's appreciatedthat she's been tweeting at usthroughout this conversation and Iwanted to make sure so Steve's I meanyou're just a you're just a Globetrotteryou're just all over the place and whatSteve's wife do you mind if I talk aboutreal quick no please go ahead so whatSteve's wife Deb is done is she set upthis tag-along travel site where shegoes with Steve to many of theselocations and she explores them whileSteve brings the the scrum framework toall corners of the earth and so sheblogs about interesting things to do indifferent countries bike tours all theseall these great things that you know ifyou're traveling with the spouse ortraveling on your own you're hittingthese interesting countries andlocations that you can do too so it's attag-along travel on Twitter I believethat's crotch Isle Lincoln in the endthe show notes and they'll also get thewebsite and all that but it's really atreating some of it after we met up inBoston at dinner a few months ago andthere's some really neat things to goand do it's a really good site there isand I'm a and I know some of your Listerlisteners are in the agile coachconsultant role which means you tend tobe a bit of a road warrior drivingaround where where your customers are soI encourage anybody who does spend timetraveling getting closer to theircustomers which I really do encourageyou to do - yeah go look at her sitebecause she's got lots of greatsuggestions for how you can make life onthe road a little less painful yep sowe'll get links to all that in the shownotes we'll make sure in some of thetweets that we we tweet at at tag-alongtravel so that you you can all find thatreally good stuff there so Steve we'reat the time box and again reallyappreciate this really enjoyed it and Ican't wait for the next time that we getto sit down and talk more scrum lookingforward to that see you soon thanks forlistening to agile for humans let's keepthe conversation going drop us aquestion on Twitter at agile for humansor visit a jold for humans calmyou

From the original recording: https://ryanripley.com/afh-086-talking-scrum-steve-porter/

Steve Porter joined Ryan Ripley on his webcast Agile for Humans to discuss a wide variety of deep Scrum topics and approaches.

In this episode you’ll discover:
– Ways to think about Scrum
– Why context is so important when discussing Scrum
– How Scrum is built for safety
– Deeper insights about the concept of a Sprint Goal

Links from the show:
– Scrum.org – http://www.scrum.org
– Why a Product Owner Should Trust their Scrum Team – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xFgjNvPGaw
– Tag Along Travel – Steve’s wife Deborah chronicles her travels as she joins Steve all around the world. She has great tips and tricks for world travelers and great insights for people who live with a spouse who frequently travels. https://tagalongtravel.com/

$23.20

Agile Software Development with Scrum (Series in Agile Software Development)

From Amazon

Sales Rank 50542 Schwaber, Ken/ Beedle, Mike

eXtreme Programming is an ideal many software shops would love…
Buy now

Related posts

Leave a Comment