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[Music]North Carolina University in concertwith see if I could say this right proTimothy conducted her annual survey ofexecutives for 2017 and they tend to userisk as a lens I've looked at thissurvey before and of course in doing sothey've identified the top ten issues ofrisk from a macro to operational scaleusing the lens of risk the results pointto higher perceived risk except by boardmembers which is an interesting thingthat I'm sure my guest today willcomment on and there's clearly no plansto address these issues at least notthrough risk management question ofcourse that this raises in my mind iscould this be because executives areleaning toward using risks instead ofpreventing risks and mitigating them andcontrolling them and then that's whereagility can actually be gained aninnovation of course you're listening tothe insight to action podcast my name isdonna jones my work is in the area oftransformation in terms of personalright through to global using the lensof decision making mindset andleadership and with me today is davewest of scrum org and dave works withexecutives and boards on understandingand gaining greater agility to throughagile and through agility so therethat's a band to get about word somebodywrote on linkedin the other day heydon't we have too much agility and Ithought well maybe in at least inconversation but not so much in actionso or mindset so Dave if we look backthe past would suggest trying to manageand control risk but is it possible thatgaining agility is a better way ofdealing with the rapid change we've gotin the world todayah hi and and thank it's a reallyinteresting question and gosh there'slots of things to talk aboutparticularly the fact that board membersdon't seem to be as worried as everybodyelse which is probably probably evenmore worrying maybe but the concept ofrisk it's I can't help but be remindedof Karate Kid you know the the eightiesfilm that was you know paint the wallyou know their wax on wax off you knowthat he talks in that and and anobviously David Carradine in kung-fubefore that said you know that thatthere'snew ways of dealing with the world butwhen you've got a lot of like movementand you need to go with it you need tosort of relax and sort of you need to belike a reed rather than a stick you knowand and ultimately I think that thatrisk is a fundamental part of any thingthat you're doing if you you know justchange a single field on a website orrelease you know a patch to yourself-driving algorithms on your car youknow that they're both risky fordifferent reasons and the outcomes thereand never predetermined you know as wemove into more more complex products andsystems the risk just increases so tomanage risk in a very traditional way Ithink would be naive and I think thatthe survey illustrates that I think thatthe only way you manage risk in thismodern world is by doing and byobserving you sort of inspect and adaptyou you you respond to change you youbasically deliver frequently and observethe behavior of that and then get readyto take it out very quickly it's almostlike you don't have risk mitigation youhave the you have the ability to removeit it's sort of when you see it's gonewrong so I think that ultimately I thinkthis survey highlights the fact that ourmanagement discipline is finallyrealizing that you can't respond youknow in a proactin a totally proactive way to risk andmanage the hell out of it you have tojust respond when the risks occur alsothere this strikes me is that how manytimes have we spent millions of dollarsdealing with a situation that neverhappensabsolutely I don't know if you've everseen this on projects and I'mparticularly us engineers and I'm I'm aself-confessed software engineer or Iguess I should say software craftsman OhNo maybe I should say software artistartist I never know what I should saynow but ultimately you know I've spentso much time sitting in meetings wherethere's always a guy that finds everypossible combination of everything andthen we spend weeks building thatsoftware and then we were prepped andthen in two years time we approach andwe realize that nobody ever went to thatpart of the software theoh well you know on a Wednesday atmidnight this thing never happens and ofcourse we built it out to do that yeahso I do think that that we need to be alot more intelligent about how we managefor risk and I think that that needs tobleed into everything we do and it alsomeans that we're gonna get things wrongand we have to also accept that thosethings happen so another great exampleis you know we the self-drive car Teslathe self-driving car and they had thatcar accident where that guy died and itwas all over the news always a disasterhow many car accidents do we have in theUS were human beings all the time rightyou have to make a choice you coulddrive incredibly slowly like like I wasgonna say like my grandma but she drivesquite quickly but you know mymother-in-law don't get in the friend ofher she would destroy anyway but you youknow you could drive really slowly andyou could or you kind of like say wellyou know life's a risk I'm gonna makecertain choices and and I think thatthat also talks about that and obviouslyagility but I'm biased would be at theheart of a modern more intelligent riskbased approach yeahnow before we started this conversationyou and I were talking a bit about thethe agility aspect of it and the focuswhether it's on the method the mindsetor the results what's your take on thatit's funny that agile is ultimately allabout managing managing in in theunknown right it's all about managing inuncertainty and I think that thedisciplines of agile things like scrumthe you know the this method kind ofstuff ultimately it's just there to getyou that mindset to think about thisvery much that you don't make yourealize uncertainty there's a there's acertain exercise in our professionalscrum master training that can in thatKench way by the creator of scrum whichyou have created and and I can't tellyou what the exercise is because it'sone of those all my gosh exercises butit's all about making you realize you'rea lying cheating person I was gonna usethat an expert at best not do that onpublic things but you're lying andcheating and and ultimately I think thatyou realize that we're there's a lot offalse or somethe way we approach work you talk aboutthat in your book and the dummy's workabout decision making the fact that wewe often make decisions we pretend thatwe're making them based on all thesefacts but really it's just a gut feelingwe're using those to justify you knowyou're ultimately we need to step backand we need to say hey wherever we doanything we've got some challenges andrisk and unknown that we're dealing withand we need to explicitly manage thatand agile is about that it's about beingvery explicit and being very transparentabout those things and and ultimatelyit's a mindset that's reinforced by somediscipline which the methods obviouslyhighlight right right so it's very muchabout the focusing on the results yeahthe outcomes really yeah yeah andhopefully those outcomes are with thecustomer you know we should be measuringnot just the cycle time of getting workturn which ops them we maniacally focuson with things like velocity we shouldbe focusing on the time a colleague ofmine says a time to learning the timethat we're actually taking thishypothesis delivering it to ourcustomers learning from it and gettingthat feedback back which is I thinkthat's the thing that we need to be veryconscious of and if you're in a risk orin a risky situation you know then thatis ultimately you know you're sort ofnervous until people start using ituntil enough people start using it untilthat situation happens and it you knowyou need to get that and obviously tryto force that earlier with a smallersubset you know like the Amazon solutionwhere you deliver to a very small subsetfunctionality continuously you'redelivering and then you see if they areat NIEHS switch it on you switch it offand you make decisions like that soyou're a lot more proactive we'retalking also about the I did the webinarfor agile India in the middle ofNovember on a Friday night at 8 o'clockanybody showed up but the conversationthere was about pivoting to an agileleadership through decision-making andof course what most of the line ofquestions that came in had to do withwith this world view of traditionalcommand and control and then we've gotover on the other side the letting go ofcontrol in order to reclaim it throughflexibility agility and so forth that'sa big shift so when you're workingexecutives what's your experience aroundbridging the there was two differentworld views so that the new world looksfriendly and approachable there is thisdefinite change but I don't see it atthe exact level executives kind of wantthis that they're very now whether theyactually do it it's a different questionbut they're definitely really you knowyou say to them okay we want to empoweryour teams to make decisions they'relike yeah that sounds greatthey've never wanted to make decisionswe need to make they need to makedecisions they're closer to the problemlet's go to it if you you know you givethis sort of list of agilecharacteristics you need to you knowrejoice in failure or learning you needto you know you need to deliver asmaller chunk you need to you need toplan broader in terms of vision and butyou know smaller in terms of actuallywhat you can actually do you need to youknow you talk about all these thingswith them and they're like yeah they getit the challenge that I find is that theamorphous blob of middle management andI say that in an endearing way no I justthink they have a very hard time becausethese executives have this grand visionand they say all the right things butultimately they then ask for the middlemanagers - when's that project going tobe done exactly a hundred percent wedon't want any you know we're planningeverything on this it needs to be ahundred percent done like ok that'sinteresting and then ok well we needthis can't you just move these peoplearound these resources around can't Bobwork on those five projects can't youknow so they're that sort of living inthis middle world this sort of likewhere the rubber meets the road and it'sincredibly difficult for them you knowthey you know agile is actually about alot more discipline but on the day today basis the can the system kind ofdisciplines sort of disappear in favorof resort baits disciplines such as youknow delivering valuable softwarefrequently are looking at it talkingabout it with your stakeholders gettingthat feedback back into the loopplanning frequently all of this is verydisciplined but it's less about theprocess and more about the teams it'sless about the you know those thosemilestones those events those thosecircumstantial indicators and more aboutthe actual indicators themselvesso it is a significant change it's hardfor them you know and if you believesome of my colleagues you know from thefrom some other communities and I wasgonna say by that's not they would sayjust get rid of middle management getrid of them you knows no there's novalue that they add but they do addvalue they you know they provide a lotof structure in a world that is oftenunstructured they provide you know theythey help their teams if they'reeffective middle managers bottom linethough is that they need to be equippedto make the right decisions they need tobe equipped to use you know that theirtheir bosses need to stop asking themtalking out both side of their face asit were and and and then if they'reallowed to do that then I think theywill be successful but it is a trickyproblem one of my other programs herewas with Michael Falcon house keynote onthis podcast but on my previous one andwe were talking about the fact that in aseventh tier organization from yourattic point of view by level four theexecutives can no longer see what theimpact who decisions has on themarketplace on the con the customer soif there's a rule for middle managementto play it's to continually connectthose dots up so that so that these youknow the whole the view is in sight youknow actually know what terrain you'reon with respect to the customer valuesthis is not an interesting point whatyou said was I think very veryinteresting it sort of goes back tosomething else we were talking aboutbefore the before the show or theweather the fact that we're sort ofinverting organizations now we're sortof turning them over and we turn them tocustomer centric and that means that thethe only people that are valuable reallyare the people or the most valuablepeople of the people that are ectlyinteracting with the customers eitherdirectly just you know servicing them ordelivering products that are directlyservicing them you know those sort oflike that level and everybody else ishelping them so you can almost thinkthat that it sort of inverted as it wereso instead of a traditional hierarchythat's sort of a pyramid going downuntil yeah right at the bottom and youknow you can just doing everything you'dsort of turn it up where these peopleare the most important people becausethey're the people that are directlyconnected to the customer you know thefact is just to use a supermarketanalogy you know the most importantpeople in supermarkets are not theexecutives so the people that areworkingon the tail the people you know sellingthe tinsel they're the people you knowmaking sure the shopping trolleys are inthe right place they're the people thatare making sure the products on thething everybody else is superfluous tothat and I think to use an Amazon it'sso funny that they at their busiesttimes everybody's you know packing boxesand everybody cares about that andcustomers and and it really does make ahuge difference you know it really doesjust that culture of everybody caringabout the customers knowing that thecustomer is the number one and we givegreat lip service to it but the agilerevolution I think will really gain hugemomentum when we connect those two thatfocus on customers and that empiricalempowered team kind of model those twothings are them if you get that togetheryou're gonna I mean that's what it's allabout rightwell I can't agree with you more but atthe same time when you're saying that'sthe first thing that comes to my mind isall right we've got this huge focus inat least in big companies on shareholdervalue that's the mantra and of courseyes when most of us kind of go oh yeahthat's really that's the non fundamentalsource of a lot of disengagement becausethat's not value to the many that isvalue to the few so if what's the pivotyou know in your experience what's thepivot between at the mindset worth aboard level in the executive level andin the cultural you know really they'rethe the beliefs they're embedded incultural decision-making away from or tobroaden it out from from shareholdervalue to real value in the customer andin the society I don't really have ananswer because unfortunately what you'vewhat you've said is the fan and wecontinuously reinforced that focus bychanging the way in which that that wasvalue is taxed even you know so you knowultimately I think the the control ofcapital is fundamentally reducing theultimate long-term value of thecompany's you know we great example isGE right you know Jeff Emmett was doingan amazing job in my opinion deliveringa transformation in fact he you know henavigated GE through some very turbulenttimes you know obviously September 11thhuge energy crisis2007 with the drop with some businessesthat weren't necessarily created fordare I say success you know the capitalpart of his business etc and he LanayaCLE focused on transforming theorganization to an information-richorganization a company that is verydigital by its very nature and you knowtrying to change it and and he waspushed out by our Investor by a rogue avery totally small owner as well of GEstock and because he wasn't getting thefrom the gut you know that the previousCEOs return you know that the level ofyou know shareholder return that youwould expect and so there's no short andeasy answer the obviously the answerthat everybody gives when asked thisquestion is that long-term value sharevalue is sustained by a maniacal focuson the customer it focus on employeesactually employees first who thenservice the customer best or the best oftheir abilities which then drives avalue of the company and an ultimateprofitability the reality though is thatmost investors aren't long-terminvestors they're short-term investorsand that means that you do get a you geta fundamental disconnect between thosetwo things so so I don't have anyanswers for that other than if you dothe right thing the right thing does youthat's what I was hope again a a grandmaexpression and and I think that byservicing your customers effectively youyou it really does end up doing theright thing and it is though ironic thatevery time I try to use a differentcompany you know like you know I can'tjust use Amazon for this stuff I'mfrequently disappointed because customerseems to be a mystery to a lot of theseorganizations that are more focused oncost and efficiency and all of thesethings which like oh these things comeif you do the customer thing right butthey shouldn't come in instead of thecustomer it's funny because when youwhen you talk about that I I'm drawingback to a quote I think I put in one ofThe Huffington Post articles I wrote onon companies that are mimic lifeprinciples using principles of life intheir in their culturalDNA and it was a it was a quote by PaulPolman who had been questioned by ashort-term investment person who sort ofsaid hey you know if I invest in yourcompany how fast can I see my sees justdon't don't invest in us don't go therebecause we're here for the long haul andwe're not here for the short turnaroundand so if you can't support our goals inthe long run don't bother and it wasbrilliant you know I mean I'mparaphrasing and you'd be much betteroperating the real quote as opposed tolistening to my version of it but it wasreally brilliant stand leadership standon here's what we stand for and here'swhat we don't stand for so as boundarysetting goes it was brilliant andactually there's a really also a greatquote this is by kiuchi Takoda thesecond president of Toyota and they werein the loom business and I think thatthis is really interesting about lengthof sort of investment and their sort offocus on that and so some some thieveshad stolen some of the loom designs youknow or left the company and the likeand and he says the thieves may be ableto follow the design plans and produce aloom but we are modifying proving ourlooms every day they do not have theexpertise gained from the failures ittook to produce the original we know notbe concerned we need to only continue asalways making our improvements sobasically this sort of like morelong-term focus this this ultimate thejourney and and there's a lot of peoplethat want to shortcut the sort of routeto Raja and the shortcut the route tocustomer centricity and shortcut all ofthat stuff but ultimately I don't thinkyou can I think that that learning thatengagement with the customer you knowevery time you what do they say we timeyou have an argument with your wife youlearn something new if you're smart youknow but the the point is it's that sortof journey with your customer and youhave to be you have to have that kind ofrelationship that sustains that and thatthat sort of changes everything if youthink in that way and and yeah I thinkthat long-term shareholder value isn'twe need to see but not if we incentivizecapital gains the way we do and not ifwe incentivize investments and and hedgefunds the way we do unfortunately butanyway I can't I can't change thosethings I'm afraid what which you arespeaking to is the importance of themetrics in torqueor tweaking or driving the dynamicsinside a company and and the focus fordecision-making so so that's importantso if you're incentivizing something youwant to know what you're actually whatthe dynamic is what's the interactionthat you create by incentivizingsomething because frequently the idea isto incentivize and but it's but theactual outcomes do not work well so theythrew the incent part but they don'tobserve what the results are and that'sreally that's where the where theinsights are gained for any kind ofadjustments or or if we're going to usethat word again the agility word thatsort of says we need to switch aroundhere and go to go a different directionyeah it's people often say what's themost important single thing becomingagile you know what should we focus onand I think one of the most importantthings is to think about what you'remeasuring I think that you know recentbeen doing some work with Jeff got it Iwrote a blog with him and and lean UX isone of the books that he's written andone thing that's interesting about leanUX is and his philosophy it's aboutthinking about how you can instrumentthe the the results you know thinkingabout the measures and then using thosemeasures to feedback into a processsense and respond you know that's sortof like that loop that he talks a lotabout because you need those measures inplace to incentivize the right changesto the behavior and but they're hardbecause if you concentrate on thingslike velocity which which is obviouslyyou know scrum dorg you know we're knownfor being my scrum is known for beingyou know velocity but I don't actuallylike velocity III use it like everybodybut ultimately I care about thatlearning and that and that and that realvalue that we're trying to deliver andtrying to get that back into the becauseso I can make you know using anempirical process the right decisionsevery at least every two weeks in termsof what I'm focused on next and and andand I think that that getting thosemeasures is is crucial but they're veryhard to get imagine you know writing alist of things that you want not interms of the things that you want butthe outcomes that they that they theyprovide I tried to do that with my fourand a half year old the other day I wastalking about Santa's list and I saidokay you know you want he wants a lot ofthings andwhy do you want this particular toyAnnie Annie looked at me and saidbecause I do and I was like no no butwhy what are you gonna do with it whatwhat things are you gonna you know whatgames on adventures you're gonna havewith it underneath looks at me and saidloads and loads I don't even know yet ohso stupid dad but we have to learn and Igave up and went back to Sponge Bob andall his friends but the we need to do iswe need to think about this list ofwants not in terms of the want but interms of the outcome it's trying toachieve and then we need to say how dowe measure that outcome be effective andI'm not saying spend millions of hoursthinking about it and you know dressedin robes or anything but you this issort of like you need to think a bitabout that and then you bring that intoyour process and then voila magichappens exactly one of the things likethat I see a lot of and it's very easyto see it's coming from the outside intoorganizations as patterns you knowthings things that are going on in theorganisation running on autopilotrunning the organization and onautopilot and and yet can often andactually not serve the organization wellin terms of responding to fast changingconditions or surprises that come flatout of nowhere and of course in a periodof time where we've got this kind ofexponential change massive change goingon you really have to know where thesepatterns are coming from what which oneshave you witnessed that get in the wayof faster responsiveness and and a lotof companies are actually working ingates themselves I noticed as wellholding them in place what do you seethere looking about variability is areally interesting thing the fact thatmost systems aren't built forvariability and as you increase thevariability the ability of the system torespond turret drops and the reason whywe use an empirical approach to softwaredelivery which is what scrum and agileand like is is because that is all aboutdealing with that lack of certainty andvariability but it's interesting you youyou're asking for particular things thatI say obviously the annual planningcycle is ridiculously it's like ananti-patternof biblical proportions as you as youname it andnot saying you shouldn't think about ayear but it should be rolling and itshould be briefyou know the priorities should berelatively easy to determine and theyshouldn't be bottom up they should betop down yes there are some things thatwill you know you're gonna have tothere's some non discretionary spendingthat you're gonna have now depending onthe life cycle depending on where yourproducts are depending on your maturitythat non discretionary spending willwill you know what will happen but whenit comes to discretionary spending whilespending months doing planning is it'sjust a stupid idea particularly as we dohave no idea what's going to happen in ayear's time instead what you need to dois determine your priorities at a broadlevel and then you need to allocatefunds based on those broad productpriorities call them products run abetter word and then you need to justallow them those teams to determinewhat's the most important things forthose areas and then hopefully ifthey're empowered and and and they'reconnected to the customer they'll makethe right decisions if they're notyou'll see it because they'll bedelivering the wrong decisionsfrequently and you're going to get rapidfeedback and an instrumentation you knowdata will always support that so I thinkyou know annual planning is anotherthing the other thing that's reallyinteresting the maniacal focus onefficiency as manifesting automationToyota did not use robots to the levelthat any of its competition did and andonly now are they starting to use asmuch you know their automation level wasrelatively small their IT level wasrelatively small in comparison to youknow the Forbes and the General Motorsand the like and you after ask yourselfwell how can a minute I thought they'rethe poster type child of quality arethey're the poster child of lean butautomation and systems and very complexsystems get in the way of dealingreality and we spend a great deal oftime investing in that and anorganization with the remit ofefficiency like we I mean I I don't knowbut the CRM implementations how many CRMimplementations do you see where you getthese forms that you create aboutcustomers and about deals and about thatare so damn calm okay because they didtrying to do of all this stuff becausethat's more efficient as opposed to keepit simple and allow sales reps andsales managers etc to augment theirprocesses minimal smallest possibleinstead of most complicated possiblethink to the you know the ultimatesolution rather than the the simplesolution I see that being a huge patternthat gets repeated over and over againand you sit in the meeting and it's likewell we've got to do this I'm gonna dothis I'm gonna do this instead of what'sthe smallest thing that we can roll outthat gives us the most value and and Ithink those so annual planning over overcomplex er sizing if that's such a wordwhich it probably isn't those are somepatterns that I see over and over againprobably the same ones that you see aswell well it's funny because I just didan interview with someone a colleague inthe Cork's burn at norwegian energycompany and in their company they gotrid of budgeting and discovered thatthey gained what they were doing bydoing this budgeting process theyalready had great great ways of keepingtrack of performance and in fact they'relooking at even updating those even moreand i'm looking at a tool right now outof hungary that actually enables anorganization to do that without thecomplicate without you know really bringit down to something simpler but anywaythey discovered that with budgeting theywere looking 80% of the time they werelooking back 20% they were lookingforward and by getting rid of budgetingthey flipped that so now 80% of theirfocus is forward and 20% is back andthat's a huge gain in terms of agilityalone in terms of keeping your head upand seeing what's going on so that youryour the patterns are these habits Icall them habits but they're they'rethese habits that were doing thembecause we've always done them but wereally might want to look at that as ayou know reflect on the bit and say whatdo we want to do here yeah and and it'snot that I mean it you sort of you knowspending hundreds of millions of dollarsyou you know you kind of like oh my godwho's spending hundred million dollarslet's spend hundreds of millions ofdollars of time you're working out we'regonna spend this hundred million dollarson I can see why all of these thingshappen I can you know and it makes totalsense at some level but but ultimatelyyeah budgeting in particular just drivesme mad that they invest so much time andit often is a complete waste of timebecause neither is the problem thatthey're solving stable or how they'regonna solveStables see you like a minute andthere's evidence that that the thatthose companies that invest in butleasing from banks I have a researchdocument that that she provided to mewhere where banks that do investmentbudgeting actually are less profitableand it all makes sense because you'repouring a lot of money and energy intosomething that it's a cut and pasteexercise so but anyway appreciate thatbecause now of course next thing thisquestion is how do you move traditionalexecutives or how do you help themrelease control on things and move intomoving flexibly or to even engaging andadopting a freer outlook and greaterautonomy inside their companies I thinkthere's one very important point whichis going to really maybe it'll surpriseyou maybe it won't we talked a littlebit about this earlier so I guess itwon't now - I let the cat out of the bagbut ultimately I don't think it's aboutagility I think you need to if you wantto get your executives to buy into thisand you want to be a name and you makethe right decisions around it it needsto be driven by customers I thinkagility is at its heart about you knowresponding to customers in a moreeffective way they could be internalcustomers and actually people withchequebooks necessarily well nottraditional checkbooks they could be youknow internal customers they could beyou know partners you know etc but theycitizens if you're in the government oror whatever if you're nonprofit theycould be members or but ultimately Ithink that we need to be responsivebecause our customers need us to be moreresponsive right so if you connectagility into that and it being a set oftools like many other things to helpingyou effectively manage these very fickleat confused customers in a moreeffective way then and I think that thatshould be the focus if you get yourexecutives to buy into the need torespond in that way then everything elsejust come becomes easy and thatobviously then the next logical step isthat you start from the edges in yourorganization you don't start from themiddle you don't you know pick a lot ofthese sort of transformations andchanges tento pick the things that are consideredto be the least risky the least you knowdon't don't rock the bow and thosedepartments are like managing theinternal intranet or the learningmanagement system which you know twopeople use you shouldn't you shouldstart with things at a customer-centricand you should use these techniques toobecause most customers naturally want towork in these and their proxies you knowthe people that manage those customersnaturally want to work in this way andyou know they they applaud you if you doit in if you if you communicate itwithout the mumbo-jumbo and the wordsthat they really want to and then if youstart at those edges then you slowlythen the support organizations you starthaving some very interestingconversations around dependencies andaround support and around you know helpdesks operations and you know all theall the ancillary finance HR all ofthese things so like then have to becomemore agile to respond to the teams thatare agile that are connected to thesecustomers so I recommend a very veryclear sort of customer first kind ofagile transformation or agile change oror transition I'd like to describe it asand and and I think that if you do thatthen not only do you get the benefit ofmaking the right decisions meaning thatyou only doing the things that are justjust necessary to service the customersin an effective way you also get the getthe business case naturally sort of likea curring from that that anyway thatthat's my my particular take and there'sthere's lots of things that can help dothat you know whether it's meat you knowlean startup or lean UX or all of theseare types initiatives DevOps for gettingstuff out all of that stuff just comesit shouldn't be the focus oh I don'twant to do DevOps I don't want to doagile I don't want to do I want todeliver lots of valuable stuff to mycustomers have them love me like like noover and then buy more stuff from me andthen allow me to grow and get even morefabulous that's possible absolutely anytips you'd like to share for thosepeople who are either on the they've gotthis massive tool and of course thetheory is if youjust apply the tool as well but in factthe tool comes with a person it comeswith their own place where they've cometo in terms of their understanding ofhow to work with the jela T and so forthor how to work even with this worldtoday so any tips that you would suggestto anyone listening to this program onhow to move forward with these ideas ina way that edges things along and andreduces the shock to the system shall wesay yeah I think I think number one isdon't give up you know this is ThomasFriedman you know Thomas Friedman orawesome you know the world is flat andhe wrote a book called thank you forbeing late and and it's a great bookapart from the last three chapters wherehe goes on about Minnesota for for somereason anyway we know what happenedthere but you know he said that that isthe model that we need to follow youknow mana soda in the 50s I'm like okayanyway but we'll ignore that those lastthree chapters but this time it's anawesome book and he's such a goodcommunicator and he talks about the factwe're in this age of accelerations rightand you know whether it be globalizationor whether it be climate change man-madeor not whether it be Moore's law or thethe impact of technology on that youknow and we're in this hugely complexworld where things are changing alwaysand so the first thing I'd always say isyou know the first tip that I have islike you're in the gray dude this isimagine being a loom maker in theindustrial revolution or a steam expertin interest revolution you are thesepeople so get excited about it don't bedespondent of course you're gonna beannoyed and there's gonna be people withclogs throwing them at you all the timebut you don't first you know don't giveup get excited getting excited aboutthis change because it is most of thepeople that you work with and I workwith and probably maybe listening tothis you're in the middle of it so oneget excited and be happy that you areand you're not a long-distance truckdriver whose job may be replaced by thishuge Tesla truck or or or lawyer who'swho's a I is going to potentiallyreplace or you know the list goes on youknow one get very excited toodon't get all religious about it youknow it's not about scrum versus XPversus lean versus this is that theseare all amazing ideas everybody thatwrites this on the majority maybe noteverybody comes from good place and weall are trying to help and we all comefrom our own point of view consider thatand then take these and use these tohelp you deliver value to the customerso then remember that it's all about thecustomer so when you're communicating toyour boss or to your person theiremployee say hey yeah so why do we dothis dailywell why we do this daily we'd love youto come is because we talk about thework that we did yesterday and the workthey do tomorrow to help the customerwhat stuff we're doing and you give usthis perspective or you give us thisperspective let's bring that you knowalways talk about it from from thatpoint of view and then if you startdoing that you become less that guytalking about method and process andbecome that guy talking about customersand helping them do things better andthen you know I guess smile I think youknow we have these values in scrum and Iwas very disappointed courage focuscommitment respect openness I wasdisappointed we didn't have humor inthat as a value and maybe get Jeff andKen when I introduced the idea may havepossibly told me I was barking mad andbut you know I think that you shouldsmile as you do it because there's anamazing time and yes there's lots thatdrive us all batty and but those thingsall come and those things will check ohand you got to have fun doing this andyou know and laugh at yourself when youmake stupid decisions about hey what weneed to do is you need to get every weneed to do this big mob thing and andthen it's complete disaster and you'relike oh well I didn't very well did itbecause you know everybody speaking adifferent language or they're all at 8p.m. on a Friday night could you forgotnobody's in India you know I what am idoing you know but then accept that andgo you know get rid of the hubris getrid of the arrogance and and then Ithink you'll have fun you'll delivervaluable stuff you'll make your custommake everybody forever happy and haveclear direction and it'll all begoodness anyway that's my opinion anywayit works for me where do people go formoreinformation you can always go to WubbaWubba you scrum de org which is orawesome we have a great blog we have ourprofessional scrum trainer communityabout two hundred and actually aboutexactly two hundred and four writingabout this stuff every day we're we'refor I'm fortunate enough that I'm partof a community that that gets it thatyou know ken Schreiber made a verystrong effort to ensure that a certaintype of thing thinkers all came togetherand and we do that and we've got a greatcommunity come and look at look at ourblogs come and visit our materials andand and get into the conversation but doit with a smile not a sneer and then andthen you'll definitely get me chattingand and having some fun with you wellthanks so much Dave for being on theprogram really appreciate it thank youfor inviting me but our conversationtoday for more information on what I dogo to instrument site to action calm mywork is about business transformationbut it's specifically about connectingpersonal leadership to making a massivedifference in the world and thenadapting the organizational cultures thebusiness culture so they can actuallyaccomplish something other than meet thenext quarter so that's my work it's muchmore than that obviously our for theHuffington Post great workplace culturesthe chapter out in the intelligence ofthe cosmos but urban laszlo on deepdynamics networks and and epigeneticsand decision making emotions in otherwords and also I'm looking I've alsowritten a chapter for great workplacecultures and just within this last weeka book an article came out throughbusiness expert Press in New York calledsuccessful in moving to an executiverole which is very much around the innerwork that and people need to do in orderto adapt to today's incredible world sothank you very much for joining me andyou can certainly connect with me onLinkedIn da W and a H Jones you can alsogo to Twitter EPB AWA underscore Jonesand that should be it and I hope youenjoy the next couple of weeks we'lltalk to you soonand thank you very much for joining me

Steps That CEOs & the C-Suite Can Take to Boost Agility with Dave West

“Agile” has become a buzzword in the software development industry as well as the wider business landscape. And for good reason – several organizations have cited Agile principles as the influence behind results such as better financial performance, project success, customer satisfaction and employee engagement. In fact, 92 percent of executives said they believe organizational agility is critical to business success (Forbes/PMI). However, a deep understanding of Agile frameworks at the board-level is necessary in order for implementation to be effective. If this deep understanding is coupled with enthusiasm, CEOs and the C-Suite can initiate an overall digital transformation that directly impacts the bottom line and boosts the potential of every employee – and nobody knows this better than Dave West.

Dave West is the CEO and Product Owner at Scrum.org and former VP and Research Director at Forrester Research for software development. Through his analyst work with several different organizations, Dave has experienced first-hand the barriers to agility and knows the steps that leaders need to take to become more agile.

Based on the principles of Scrum and the Agile Manifesto, Scrum.org provides comprehensive training, assessments and certifications to improve the profession of software delivery. In his position at Scrum.org, Dave works to carry out the organization’s goal of enabling teams to deliver software in a more effective way, raise the skill level of the software development industry, and in turn, influence the production of great software with the power to change the world.

Prior to his work at Scrum.org, Dave led the development of the Rational Unified Process (RUP) for IBM/Rational. He also was Chief Product Officer for Tasktop Technologies and Managing Director of the Americas at Ivar Jacobson Consulting.

Host – Dawna Jones

Dawna Jones, host of the Insight to Action podcast, is an author and transformational leadership consultant who works with progressive thinkers and bold leaders to elevate value at a human, organizational to global level. She has been a monthly blogger for the Huffington Post Great Workplace Cultures, wrote Decision Making for Dummies, and has contributed a chapter on the new purpose of business to Ervin Laszlo’s The Intelligence of the Cosmos. Business Expert Press just published Successfully Moving to an Executive Role. Dawna is also exploring VR and XR to augment human decisions and restore health to people and workplaces simultaneously. You can find Dawna on Twitter EPDawna_Jones and on LinkedIn.

Intro music is provided by MarkRomeroMusic.com. Mark’s music is scientifically proven to restore coherence to the human body. (You feel better!)

Read more at http://insighttoaction.libsyn.com/steps-that-ceos-the-c-suite-can-take-to-boost-agility-with-dave-west#flxxLAyBgwIyCcSr.99

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